HSK - Anyone studying in Dalian this summer? - Page 2 -

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Anyone studying in Dalian this summer?
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koreth -

That's right, Dandong is a 5-hour bus ride (or a 9-hour train ride) from Dalian.

As for Americans visiting DPRK, sadly it's still a bit on the pricey side. But I figure it is
probably the one and only time I'll get to visit the place in its current form (both because I'm
not in the region all that often and because who knows what will happen there over time) and I'd
regret not having the experience more than I'll regret being out the extra money.

I visited Russia just after Yeltsin took over and I didn't get to China until after it had already
become the capitaliest place on earth... gotta see at least one communist dictatorship in full
bloom before they all go away.



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leosmith -

Howdy,
I'll be at TLI in Dalian for one week of private lessons, July 21-27. Buy you guys a round?










Jamoldo -

Sounds good to me Leo...










vr2nr -

I am thinking of Dalian this summer, my buddy has a flat in high rent district of taipei, i can
stay there free. - 3 bedrooms, internet, the works... but I am just not sure.. I really want to
lock and load with the mandarin studies... Any comments?

Also, comments on where you would stay for... say a 3 month stint? I just need a
room/bathroom/internet. that covers it.










leosmith -



Quote:

I am thinking of Dalian this summer, my buddy has a flat in high rent district of taipei, i can
stay there free. - 3 bedrooms, internet, the works... but I am just not sure.. I really want to
lock and load with the mandarin studies... Any comments?

Also, comments on where you would stay for... say a 3 month stint? I just need a
room/bathroom/internet. that covers it.

Sorry if I'm being dense - are you weighing Dalian vs. Taipei?










koreth -

Yeah, also not sure if you're weighing Dalian vs. Taipei. The two are pretty distant from one
another, especially since you can't fly directly from Taiwan to the mainland yet.

Assuming you are comparing the two: which city you prefer will depend entirely on your taste.

Taipei has more of a cosmopolitan, big-city feel in my opinion; that's a plus to some and a minus
to others. The facilities in Taipei are more modern and you stand a much better chance of a random
public toilet being western-style rather than squat-style in Taipei. Food safety is probably
better in Taipei. The weather in Dalian is more moderate, especially during the summer -- Taipei
will be hotter and more humid. Dalian has cleaner air. If you like talking politics, you will find
that a fruitless endeavor at best just about anywhere on the mainland; there's no quicker way to
get a Chinese friend to clam up than to veer into that territory inadvertently. Taipei has far,
far more westerners, so if you need a break from Chinese immersion it's never far away (which also
means you aren't forced to use Chinese all the time.) The signs and newspapers and books in
Taipei, of course, are all traditional characters, while in Dalian it's mostly (though not
entirely) simplified, so if you're learning just one or the other writing system, that'll probably
be a factor.

So, yeah, pluses and minuses to both. I personally prefer Dalian but I could easily see why
someone would find Taipei more appealing.

Of course, in addition to the cities themselves, you also need to consider the merits of whatever
schools you're thinking of attending. Though there's a branch of the Taipei Language Institute in
Dalian...












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Learn Chinese - 20 years old considering to study in ACLS!!!! (beginner) -

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20 years old considering to study in ACLS!!!! (beginner)
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lisa1 -

i would like to learn manderin at ACLS but not sure which is best for me Shanghai/ Beijing. i've
done alot of research into this and i think it will be applying through WLS. i'm a little
concerned that i will be the youngest one there and not being able to get along with the new
arrivals because i'm sure their all 25+.

QUESTIONS NEED ANSWERING

should i consider going through to ALCS? whats the advantages and this advantages? where would you
reccommend?

Shanghai or Beijing at ACLS? the good ans bad aspects of both? whats it like? difference?

age difference is a concern for me. will there be 18 to 21yrs over there at the ACLS?

i will be applying a academic year. i would like to know a little about that if anyone has applied
for this.

There are a few questions that i propbly havn't covered so fell free to tell me about your
experiences.

thank you



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rezaf -

I study in shanghai. from my poin of view shanghai is a better city for a foreigner but the
problem is that shaghainese people have a very bad putonghua accent and you wont be able to learn
the correct accent from your daily conversations. all in all I think living in shanghai has helped
me a lot to endure loneliness and such problems.










Lu -

For some of your questions, please try reading some more threads in this forum. There are several
on the SH-BJ question, and there are many people who have studied in China for a year (or even
longer). There are also several more general threads about people's experiences in various schools
in various cities.
Great that you're going to study in China, enjoy your stay!












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Chinese Class - "Learning Chinese not so hard" - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
"Learning Chinese not so hard"
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rose~ -

I agree. If my friends ask me whether Chinese is difficult then I say it is only as difficult as
learning any other language, but that learning to write takes a lot of practise. But let's face
it, learning characters isn't intellectually difficult by any stretch of the imagination, it's
just repetitive, time-consuming and boring. It's rote learning that is hardly emphasized anymore
in a modern education.

If my employer ever asks me whether Chinese is difficult I just sigh, shake my head, and say
"yeah".

We need to maintain the fallacy of the super-human difficulty of learning Chinese in order to have
enhanced employability.

I'm not saying it's easy, God (and all my Chinese friends, landlord, teacher and so on) know that
I still suck at Chinese, but that's mainly due to laziness on my part.



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赫杰 -

I guess learning anything is what you make it, it all depends on the individual’s goals and
standards.

Just to add on about the tones, I don't know about you guys but at this stage I really don't mind
them, I mean, you practice it the right way enough and you really wont have to think about it that
much, or maybe you just get so used to minding them that you don't have to think about minding
them so much....and I've just gone cross-eyed

Anyways, and in the times you have to repeat yourself, so what? Just say it the second time slowly
and get all your tones right, I mean Chinese do this all the time, no big deal. Furthermore, I
really enjoy playing those little word/tone games with my friends, to me, it can add some color to
those usually dull conversations, whether it be on purpose or on accident.

For instance, the other day my roommate was feeling bad and his girlfriend asked him to go
somewhere and he said no, and she replied: "你真的不想去吗？" He said: "我不祥" what?
"我不祥" she looked at me and we smiled at each other and I said: "哎，我也不祥", I don't
know, I enjoy simple stupid stuff like that so I don't mind them, of course I guess it would be
annoying to do the same thing with the accountants at the bank while exchanging travelers checks
or something, time and place.

HJ










koreth -

I think what's hard about Chinese changes as you progress. I know it has for me. When I first
started out, tones were completely over my head. Then it was memorizing 字 and 词. Now,
approaching 2000 字 under my belt, I'm at a point where I often can read all or nearly all of the
字 in a newspaper headline, but I often don't know the 词 they form, so it's still a meaningless
jumble to me.

One ongoing frustration, as someone else mentioned, is learning new vocabulary from some text I'm
reading and having no idea whether it's usable in 口语. None of my dictionaries have any
indication. I've lost count of the number of times I've gotten, "I understand you, but we never
say that word," from native speakers, usually preceded by a puzzled expression as they work out
how they'd write what I just said. And sometimes I'll use a word that's only ever used in written
form, such that the native speaker has no idea what I'm saying even though my pronunciation is
fine.

My other frustration is that there are certain words that have a zillion near-synonyms that aren't
interchangeable. For example, 而且 and 并且 -- I had to ask seven different native speakers
before one of them could explain the difference to me. My poor girlfriend tried for a solid
half-hour before concluding with some embarrassment that she didn't actually know the difference,
even though she knew intuitively when to use which. When I asked her to compare those two to
此外 and 不仅如此 and 再说 and 还有 and 另外 and 加上, all she could do was sigh and
shake her head.

Edit: One more frustration, though it's more of an amusement, I suppose: I'm amazed at the number
of times I've had to repeat myself because the person I was talking to didn't expect to hear
Mandarin coming out of my white-boy lips and by the time they realized it, I was already halfway
done with my sentence. It's frustrating because I have no way of telling from their reaction
whether my speaking or their listening is responsible for the lack of comprehension, so I'll often
go into "uh oh, better figure out where I just screwed up my pronunciation" mode even though in
reality I was speaking just fine. Anyone else have that experience? My guess is that people
learning English don't run into it because native English speakers don't have the expectation that
someone of a different race must not speak their language.










heifeng -



Quote:

I have no way of telling from their reaction whether my speaking or their listening is responsible
for the lack of comprehension,

b4 I got my IC card if I went to a subway station and shouted out I wanted one 3 yuan ticket (the
most simple sentence on earth, right) the teller suddenly hands me a couple of tickets and as I'm
totally confused wondering wtf, I look behind me and see some other foreigners. Clearly she just
managed to completely ignore the words coming out of my mouth (plus the total of 3 kuai I had
given her) and assume i was a representative of the laowai pack behind me despite the fact I said
one ticket....yes sometimes people just look at you and don't really listen, but I'll give her the
benefit of the doubt that maybe I didn't quite yell out 1 ticket loud enough and it's windy in the
subway tunnels...On other occasion when I was completely bundled up and wearing my hood and scarf
(the only opportunity you really have to hide your foreign-ess other than lurking around in the
dark) a bus attendent asked me where I was going and scanned my ic card on the bus, during the
course of the trip I took off my hood and was about to get off the bus when the attendent, totally
convinced i didn't swipe my card, ran up to me. I then had to convince her that she did scan it
and and point out where I was sitting. I'm guessing the laowai accent must not have been that
terrible otherwise she would have totally remembered me on a bus since there were only 5 people on
it...

So yes, I think the visual data people receive influences their listening, if they even listen in
the first place...If they don't see you are a foreigner they probably won't even really second
guess that you are Chinese if you are somewhat decent in pronunciation since there are so many
Chinese with non standard putonghua as well....

back to the subject of Chinese being hard or not....It's only hard in that its different from
English (if you are an English, or xxxx language speaker in which the language is not related to
Chinese at all) and you don't have all the cognates so there is less of a 'head start' than you
would have if you studied other languages plus there is a massive amount of vocabulary to describe
things that are very similar. As someone mentioned before with the correct teaching method ( for
example having good overseas teachers that are actually skilled at teaching as opposed to just
research and have actual duiwai teaching experience) learning Chinese would be easier. But
anything, whether it's a language or not, if you psyche someone out about it enough before hand
they are definitely going to believe it is hard. So the whole "is Chinese hard" line of
questioning, much like the whole can you use chopsticks etc etc. line of laowai interrogation, is
just totally uneccesary in general. In the US if someone has decent English skills, I wouldn't
tell them this because I would think it's in insulting to them since they are already good at the
language. If someone is bad at the langauge I would at least try to help them, but for Chinese
learners more often then not you get a big pat on the back no matter what, so I think that the
whole lack in honesty in feedback and low expectations put on foreigners doesn't do anything to
really help anyone make progress in the language. ( I have had some fun experiencese here when
some locals pointed out to me my tone problems, and you know what, I'll never mispronounce 扎 for
炸 again once I get a flat on bike....but If i had someone correct me everyday instead of giving
me a phony thumbs up, I think i would have eliminated many problems long ago)

Is Chinese hard, sure, but not as super hard as people like to think it is. I sometimes think that
English is in fact harder because of the verb tenses, making nouns plural, indefinite pronouns and
other grammar since there are Chinese native speakers after X number of years still saying he for
she adding or omitting 'the' in the wrong places, totally confusing me on when events actually
occured b/c of their jumping back and forth between tenses, and just irratating me in general when
not even making an effort to pronounce the 'th' sound correctly...etc etc, but they can recite
English words as well as a wordlingo website, but that's how it feels like to converse with 'em
too. (And this is why I can never ever teach ESL in Asia because I think I might tramatize too
many students...plus my own questionable English skills ehhe)

I therefore think that it is infact English that is hard and Chinese people are just trying to
psyche us out.....those masterminds...so from now on I'm going to tell everyone Studying Chinese
is very very very easy indeed and infact English is very very hard.

Others can join into Heifeng's psychological warfare strategy, but make sure your Chinese is
decent and just tell everyone Studying Chinese is easy, and divide the time you have been studying
by two whenever anyone asks how long you have been studying!! wahahahaha










carlo -

I think it's nice that a Chinese columnist can publicly admit that Chinese is only a language
after all, and that you don't need to be a genius or a spy to speak the language of your host
country. It's a sign that people are really opening up, in a way. I remember a few months ago at a
crowded conference centre (many foreigners around) I overheard a local young lady saying to her
friend, 'Foreigners look more and more like Chinese these days'. And her friend said, 'We look
like foreigners'. Yeah baby, taht's the idea.










koreth -



Quote:

Is Chinese hard, sure, but not as super hard as people like to think it is. I sometimes think that
English is in fact harder because of the verb tenses, making nouns plural, indefinite pronouns and
other grammar

I think English is widely regarded as a pretty difficult language to learn, so I don't disagree
with you there. Nonetheless -- speaking as someone who has studied Spanish and Russian in the
past, though I've forgotten most of both of them -- Chinese has a few features that I think make
it a much steeper mountain to climb than most other languages.

First of all, you just can't ignore the writing system. In most languages, learning to read helps
you learn how to speak pretty much from day one. You may not get the pronunciation right, but
you'll usually at least be comprehensible to a native speaker if you sound out an unfamiliar word
you've read. In Chinese, until you've amassed a decent vocabulary already, reading is of nearly no
use in increasing your spoken vocabulary. I'm sure you've had the experience, as I have, of
knowing perfectly well what a Chinese word you're reading means, but drawing a complete blank on
what it sounds like. That's a problem most other languages not only don't have, but can't have.
You end up having to memorize two pieces of information for each word, whereas in other languages
(especially ones like Spanish) you can memorize either the written form or the spoken form and get
the other one for free.

Yes, I'm aware that the writing system has advantages! I can often get a general idea of the
meaning of a piece of Japanese text if it uses a lot of kanji, even though I've never studied
Japanese, and that's pretty darned cool. But useful or no, it still makes learning harder. I
suspect many native Chinese speakers who don't think the language is hard have no concept of how
little time schoolchildren in western countries spend learning how to read.

Then there are the tones. I think this is more intimidating than it deserves, since you do get
used to it fairly early on if you're paying attention. But it's still an additional barrier, even
to people who speak other tonal languages -- to my ear, a native Vietnamese speaker's Mandarin
tones are just as mangled as a native English speaker's. (Though admittedly, I only know one
Vietnamese person who speaks any Mandarin.) In English, if you pronounce the correct syllables
with the wrong intonation, it'll sound odd but still be correct; the worst you'll do is change a
statement into a question by accident. In Mandarin, it'll often mean something completely
different or make no sense at all. So that's one more dimension you have to get right in Mandarin
but not most other languages.

And finally, as I mentioned before, there's the wide gulf between the written and spoken forms. I
have a hard time thinking of many things I could write in English that would be incomprehensible
if spoken aloud. Stilted or overly formal, sure, but the poster of "施氏食狮史" on my wall
reminds me that written Mandarin conveys a lot more information per character than spoken Mandarin
does. English has homonyms too, to be sure, but not to anywhere near the degree Mandarin does.

Anyway, that's my take on why it's a hard language. But that's all also what makes it a fun and
challenging language, so don't take any of that as complaining!










wushijiao -



Quote:

In Chinese, until you've amassed a decent vocabulary already, reading is of nearly no use in
increasing your spoken vocabulary. I'm sure you've had the experience, as I have, of knowing
perfectly well what a Chinese word you're reading means, but drawing a complete blank on what it
sounds like. That's a problem most other languages not only don't have, but can't have. You end up
having to memorize two pieces of information for each word, whereas in other languages (especially
ones like Spanish) you can memorize either the written form or the spoken form and get the other
one for free.

I think that’s really well said, Koreth. The flip side is that, once learning vocabulary becomes
you major goal, the bi-syllabic nature of Chinese words works as a handy memory device. A simple
example might be- 海军 (hai3jun1), meaning “navy”. The component part “sea” and
“military”, help make the combination easy to remember. Of course, not all words have
component parts that aid memory. And, of course, European languages have plenty of prefixes and
suffixes and common word bases that can help in the memorization of new words. But, all in all, I
think that compared to memorizing the transcribed random utterances of most languages, memorizing
Chinese words is a bit easier, due to the way words are comprised. I think this is a fairly
significant advantage to learning Chinese, but it often ignored.

As others like HashiriKata and Atitarev have said, with the right motivation and environment,
almost all languages are learnable. Probably the best example of that is the Peace Corps. They
give you only a few weeks of intensive language prep, and then just stick you in some random
village that has no other foreigners, in the middle of a developing country, and they give you
only one job for the first three months make friends with locals and become a positive member of
the community. The result is that after two years, many people who couldn’t get an A in high
school French end up becoming relatively fluent in another language, often one that doesn’t even
have a whole lot of learning materials

As far as Chinese, as heifeng said, it is difficult because English has basically no words that
come from Chinese. So, it there are fewer cognates. It will just take more time to learn Chinese
compared to one of the many promiscuous languages that is related to that ragged mongrel of a
tongue, English.










gato -

Chinese is harder than most other languages. Remember what Xiao Kui said about her experience
learning Spanish compared with Chinese.


Quote:


Originally Posted by Xiao Kui

http://www. /showth...1985#post61985

I´ve been living in Argentina almost a year now and my progress in Spanish has discouraged me.
Why, because I made almost as much progress in one year as I did with 5 years of living in China
and learning Mandarin. I can testify that Mandarin is much more difficult than the romance
languages for native speakers of English.













wushijiao -

If Xiao Kui sees this, I wonder if he would share to what level of Spanish he had before going to
Argentina.

At least in the US, one thing about learning Chinese is that most people start learning in college
or after, compared to European langages, which are usually offered at an earlier time.










atitarev -

I thought it would be good to have Arabic under my belt.

If this is any consolation, I have come to the conclusion that Arabic is much more difficult than
Mandarin Chinese, in many aspects, including the writing systems, although it might surprise you
if you have some superficial idea about Arabic. I only got to about intermediate level in Chinese.
Ask me why if interested, no need to rant here as there aren't many Arabic learners/speakers here.

I have spent a year (on and off) on Arabic and got very frustrated. Chinese Mandarin seems to be a
breeze, at least the process of learning. Well, I discovered a language, which is harder than
Mandarin and since then learning Mandarin seems more enjoyable.












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Speak Chinese - Experienced Mandarin Tutor Available at Denver CO -

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Experienced Mandarin Tutor Available at Denver CO
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mytulip -

I am a native Chinese speaker with years of experience in both teaching English to Chinese
speakers and teaching Chinese to English speakers. I have a master degree in Education and a
two-year experience in tutoring Mandarin Chinese to individuals in various levels while in
Buffalo, NY. My lessons are interactive and fun. You will learn more than just the Chinese
language from the lessons.I've got excellent feedbacks from my former students. My schedule is
very flexible. If you are interested and live in Denver, CO, USA, feel free to contact me via
email for details. My email address: mytulipfor2@yahoo.com Xiexie!



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Chinese Class - Please criticize my accent mercilessly -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Please criticize my accent mercilessly
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Page 1 of 2 1 2 >






djwebb2004 -

I have attached an audio file. I know there are errors, but I thought it better to post an audio
without the text to see if people can understand! I think it probably my 1) 1st one is not high
enough 2) my 2nd tone is too vague 3) my tone 3 sandhi is wrong, and 4)my 4th tone does not go
down properly enough... Thank you for any help.



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Koneko -

Generally it's pretty good, just some intonation issues.

K.










Horatio -

Err, This is my first post so it seems kind of stink for it to be a criticism
First your spoken Chinese blows mine out of the water.
Thing I noticed was your 为什么 not really pronouncing the sh of shen. Maybe you're copying the
local dialect?










djwebb2004 -

Horatio, many Chinese do not pronounce sh as sh and it is easy to get lazy in this respect, as it
is easy to pronounce it the way the southerners do...










Koneko -

I would like to add that most Southerners do not pronunce words ending with "g" clearly either.

"Change yourself to suit the environment not vice versa."
DJ. K. strikes back










igotyofire -

are you reading?










djwebb2004 -

yes, that is why the audio is not very good. I am reading. I will try to do one another day where
I am just talking naturally.










heifeng -

Sorry, but you said be merciless:

I played your file for the guys in my office (who for the most part are just exposed to my funky
Chinese, thus exposure to other foreigners is limited):

the good news is they could understand you for the most part.

The bad news is they agreed that pronounciation didn't seem really really clear and accurate.

Whatever my opinion counts for*, maybe some of the pauses in the sentence aren't that natural so
it loses a lil' bit of overall flow and pronounciation could be a bit "crisper" if that makes
sense...(*not much hehe)

Do you have a native speaker's recording of what you read so that you can imitate? I'm suffering
from the same reading and recording issues and will spend an hour or more on a short HSK type
passage so I feel your pain....

加油...










chenpv -

In my opinion, djwebb was doing a great job trying to pronounce every character the right way,
given he managed to keep the flow as natural/fast as he could. And I believe he is able to
enunciate those characters with a relatively relaxed reading speed.

Incidentally, I also noticed that westerners tend to have very heavy nasal sounds while speaking
Chinese, which makes them very distinguishable from native speaker no matter how accurately they
manage every pronunciation and intonation. Well, don't mean to force any Chinese learner to sound
exactly like a native speaker, it's just... how I feel, possibly, just me...










gato -

djwebb, I notice that you have some general tone problems ("中国", for example). If you can
submit a shorter clip (maybe just 30 seconds), people would be better able to offer more specific
comments.












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Pnyin - 《千里之外》周杰伦 & 费玉清 -

> Chinese Culture > Music
《千里之外》周杰伦 & 费玉清
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Koneko -

Both 周杰伦 and 费玉清 really bring this song to life!
It's slow and jazzy, with a hint of hip hop flavour.

Click here for music video.

《千里之外》

屋檐如悬崖风铃如沧海我等燕归来
时间被安排演一场意外你悄然走开
故事在城外浓雾散不开看不清对白
你听不出来风声不存在是我在感慨

梦醒来是谁在窗台把结局打开
那薄如蝉翼的未来经不起谁来拆
我送你离开千里之外你无声黑白
沉默年代或许不该太遥远的相爱
我送你离开天涯之外你是否还在
琴声何来生死难猜用一生去等待

闻泪声入林寻梨花白只得一行青苔
天在山之外雨落花台我两鬓斑白
闻泪声入林寻梨花白只得一行青苔
天在山之外雨落花台我等你来

一身琉璃白透明着尘埃你无瑕的爱
你从雨中来诗化了悲哀我淋湿现在
芙蓉水面采船行影犹在你却不回来
被岁月覆盖你说的花开过去成空白

梦醒来是谁在窗台把结局打开
那薄如蝉翼的未来经不起谁来拆
我送你离开千里之外你无声黑白
沉默年代或许不该太遥远的相爱
我送你离开天涯之外你是否还在
琴声何来生死难猜用一生...

我送你离开千里之外你无声黑白
沉默年代或许不该太遥远的相爱
我送你离开天涯之外你是否还在
琴声何来生死难猜用一生去等

DJ. K.



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Chinese Class - 17 March, Corte Ingles Sol, Madrid -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
17 March, Corte Ingles Sol, Madrid
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ziyi star -

hi, it's been a while since i wanted to make a meetup with people that are from -Mandarin School in China.
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Koneko -



Quote:

Corte Ingles located in Sol

Nice place!
Heart of English in the Sun.

I've been there!

K.










adrianlondon -

Heart of English in the Sun?

I think you may have misread. Not "Costa Del Sol" but "Corte Ingles, Sol". El Corte Ingles is a
Spanish department store chain.

Although I've been there a couple of times, there really aren't many English people in, or who
visit, Madrid.










Koneko -

Ha ha... that's my pun!
I actually meant the department store. Yes, the one with the green triangle logo.

But, I have also been to Andalusia!

K.










Jose -

I think I am probably the only regular member here who has been a long-time resident of Madrid.
Unfortunately, I am no longer there. I left Madrid for England nearly two years ago and now I have
ended up living in archrival city Barcelona.

I am not sure which city I prefer to be honest. For some reason Madrid has a bit of an image
problem, and foreigners seem to prefer Barcelona, but I find Madrid much more full of life. I hope
you will enjoy it.










roddy -

Have sent pm's to those members who list Madrid as their location and have been active in the last
six months. Only a few of them, but might help.










Eulloba -

Hi,

I am Eugenio, I live in Madrid.

Where in El Corte Inglés? The place has several entrace gates.

Mi nacionalidad es española, supongo que también la tuya. Mi nivel de Chino es avanzado.

Looking forward to your details.










ziyi star -



Quote:

Heart of English in the Sun.

lol ... you should come visit madrid koneko!

my level of chinese is elementary ... i hope we can meet, if anyone has any doubts you can pm me

by the way, thanx roddy for your help










ziyi star -

nobody is coming??












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Learn Mandarin online - Downloadable Adso -- Looking for Linux Testers -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > Adsotrans.com Forum
Downloadable Adso -- Looking for Linux Testers
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trevelyan -

Hi everyone,

We're now providing downloadable binaries for Linux. The details are all in here:

http://www.adsotate.com/textbook/?q=node/886

I'm hoping to find some Linux users to test that the software works on their distribution. Right
now Adso is known to run without complaint on the various Fedora Core distributions, although it
fails on Red Hat 9 (outdated kernel).

If there are any Linux users out there who are interested in playing with machine translation and
text-analysis software who want to help us with testing the software, the help would be
appreciated. Copies of the software and database are available at the address above, both updated
daily.



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PangPang -

Ran it on Centos 4.4 x86_64 and it seemed to work fine. Note that I downloaded
adso-stable-2007-02-28.tar.gz, but it extracted into adso-devel-2007-02-28.










trevelyan -

Thanks for checking it out PangPang. I'm relieved to hear it works and have fixed that naming
issue.










bokane -

If it's a command-line app, is there any chance of porting it to OS X? (It's based on BSD, so
supposedly it should be pretty similar.) I could try compiling it myself, if there's no
platform-specific/otherwise tricky stuff there.










imron -

If it's still more or less the same command-line app as the version I ported for Windows, it
should be trivial to get it working on OSX. The only issue I can see is potential
Big-Endian/Little-Endian differences for non-Intel Macs, but even that is not too hard to sort
out. If you would like Mac porters/testers, I've got a Mac now too.










trevelyan -

@Brendan and Imron -- Great. There have already been a couple of changes from the last stable
release which do things like prevent the software from crashing under strange conditions. I want
to find and solve whatever is giving us thoseSQL errors on NewsinChinese. When that's done I'll
send you both the latest source.












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Chinese language - Chinese sausage - translation help -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Chinese sausage - translation help
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Guusj -

In the workbook of New Chinese Practical Reader at page 36 there is the following word of which i
cannot find a good translation: 火腿肠 huo3 tui3 chang2. I found huo3 tui3 = ham and chang2 =
intestines. I suppose here the skin of the intestines is intended.
What is the good English translation of this word ?



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djwebb2004 -

The answer is "sausage".

Sausages are either called 香肠 or 火腿 The red type of cheapo sausages they sell on the
streets are usually called huotui. Don't forget a lot of the differences between food terms
relates to a culture. Europeans might know what spam, ham, sausages, brawn, haslet and bacon etc
are but to come up with exact terms for things that are not in the culture is a bit artifiial.
花椒 胡椒 辣椒 and a few more - I am always a bit stuck when asked what the "English" for
huajiao is - supposedly Sichuan pepper but I am not sure how many people in England would be
exactly sure what that was and how it differed from pepper. 对联 in English are "antithetical
couplets" according to the dictionary - but the best translation is red poster thingies that hang
down either side of the door during the Spring festival...

Chinese don't have as detailed a sausage culture as places like Germany.










againstwind -

I fortunately find that there is a 火腿肠 in my fridge. And its translation was just printed on
the cover , that is Ham Sausage.

But according to my experience, this kind of ham sausage is probably not made from hams, but pork
that we don't know they are from which part of pigs. Besides, another main component is fecula
which is usually less than 10%.

So I guess Chinese sausage should be another thing —— bacon sausage, which is usually popular
in winter.










gato -



Quote:

we don't know they are from which part of pigs. Besides, another main component is fecula which is
usually less than 10%.

Do we want to know what "fecula" is?










Guusj -

Thank you very much.










trien27 -

I know nobody wants to know what it is, but for those who want to know or don't know Latin,
fecula = look here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fecula










heifeng -



Quote:

I fortunately find that there is a 火腿肠 in my fridge. And its translation was just printed on
the cover , that is Ham Sausage.

But according to my experience, this kind of ham sausage is probably not made from hams, but pork
that we don't know they are from which part of pigs.


Any meat that is not getting pulled of the bone where it originally was attached is questionable
to me....there is a reason it's not presentable in it's original form.

Not to make this sausage question even nastier, but be careful whenever you see English on food
labeling. I would never just trust the translation, or even the Chinese ingredients listed on
packaging for that matter. I think of the English as just part of the decoration and the fact that
there is a foreign language on there to make the product appear legit. Pulling from some of my
random China experiences: Usually the Chinese guy doing the product packaging design has no clue
what the accurate English is suppose to be unless someone who actually knows what the correct
translation should be gives him it or reviews the final packaging. (How likely do we think this
is?) Then he'll probably complain that the English is too long and messes up his design, and then
not want to fix it, and no one else really cares if he does because they don't read the English
anyway. Ok, end of venting.

Now go ahead and enjoy your meal.










roddy -

Yeah - basically think of the cheapest supermarket ham, then add some extra sawdust and water,
squeeze it into sausage shape and you have a 火腿肠. Kids love 'em and you get them in cheap
food sometimes - maybe as an ingredient in fried noodles. You can also add them to say a
鸡蛋灌饼 (hmmmm, haven't had one of those for ages . . .) for an extra pittance.










venture160 -

at the HIT campus market they would always put 火腿肠 into the 春卷儿，although i always
had them take it out and put in extra vegies... mmm so good.


Anyone else here an abosolute fiend for 东北 food?










imron -



Quote:

Anyone else here an abosolute fiend for 东北 food?

Oh yeah.... gotta love that 土豆顿牛肉！












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Chinese Character - XI - men -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
XI - men
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olgab92 -

Hi all

I'm looking for the translation of the word XI-MEN, I'm not sure it is one word or two. The
concept can be related to the international business world

Thanks



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gougou -

Never heard of that. The company Siemens is called Ximenzi, though, which is supposed to mean: the
master who comes through the Western gate.










盘古通天教主 -

i think it's 西门！just a kind of chinese family name.










skylee -

If it is related to international business, then I agree with gougou.










Koneko -

Just curious why XI is in uppercase; whereas men is in lowercase?

Why not Xi-Men? Xi-men? But XI-men?
Could XI be 11?

Hence, XI-men = 11-men

It should however spelt as 11-man though?!

K.












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Learning Chinese - 请帮我当汉语老师 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
请帮我当汉语老师
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teachinator -

I'm not really going to teach Chinese, fortunately! But after studying for three months in China
last year, I have arranged to give a short workshop for some of my fellow ESL (English as a Second
Language) teachers about my experiences, from the standpoints both of intercultural issues and of
being a language student in a foreign country.

I thought it would be interesting to spend the first five or ten minutes pretending to be a
teacher with a first-year Chinese class, immersing my "students" in the bewildering experience of
being completely surrounded by a foreign language. I think I have enough Chinese to fake it (I
have more background than just last year's three months of study), but I would like to get things
right to the greatest extent possible.

So with that long-winded explanation, could I ask some kind, more fluent soul to check and correct
the following, and perhaps suggest other things a Chinese teacher might want to say to beginning
students? I don't need really simple things like 请进and 清坐, but ideas to expand on the
theme be great. It takes more talking than one realizes to fill up five minutes.

Below I've written some of what I plan to say and/or write on the board; I would appreciate it if
you would look at my translations and tell me if I can do better. (I'm not trying to achieve
literal translation but rather equivalent social expressions.)

学生们，你门好！欢迎我们的汉语课。 Hello and welcome to our Chinese class!

我是老师，我教科苏珊。 I'm your teacher, and my name is .

我的姓名在黑板上。My name is (written) on the blackboard.

今天是我们课的地一天。Today is our first day of class.

今天是二月八号，星期六, 二零零七。 Today is Thursday, February 8.

I'd also like to give them a little "pre-test," so I need to say, "We are going to have a short
test." What would be the best way to say that? This:
现在有一点小考试
can't be anywhere near right.

And, on the test itself, I want to avoid any English, so how would I write in Chinese, "Draw lines
to connect the characters to the matching pictures?" I came up with:

画线连接下列词语和画

Well, if I don't get any responses, I will do my best to fake it and hopefully won't embarrass
myself too much, but help would be very much apprecicated!



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Aweni -

hello.teachinator,

学生们，你门好！欢迎我们的汉语课。 Hello and welcome to our Chinese class!
you can say:同学们，你们好，欢迎大家上我们的汉语课!

我是老师，我教科苏珊。 I'm your teacher, and my name is .
you can say:我是你们的老师，我叫科苏珊

我的姓名在黑板上。My name is (written) on the blackboard
you can say: 我的名字在黑板上

今天是我们课的地一天。Today is our first day of class
you can say: 今天是我们第一天上课 or 今天是我们第一天的课

今天是二月八号，星期六, 二零零七。 Today is Thursday, February 8.
you can say: 今天是二零零七年二月八号星期六

现在有一点小考试。We are going to have a short test
you can say: 现在我们来(做)一个小测验

画线连接下列词语和画。Draw lines to connect the characters to the matching pictures
you can say: 把下面与画面相符的词语用线连起来










-葛亚辉- -



Quote:

我是老师，我教科苏珊。 I'm your teacher, and my name is .

我的姓名在黑板上。My name is (written) on the blackboard.

I'm just a beginning chinese student myself but two things I noticed.

1) That is the wrong jiao. You mean 叫。

2) For the second sentence, I think that “黑板上写着我的名字”would be better/"比较
chinese" as my teachers would say. but I may be wrong about that.










teachinator -

Oh no, I had the wrong 叫 and the wrong 第！ How careless I am!

葛亚辉, you caught one of my character mistakes - thank you! And Aweni, thank you for greatly
improving my Chinese throughout!










teachinator -

I would like to put up a sign that says "Chinese only!" in the classroom for my fake Chinese
class, the same way ESL teachers usually put up some version of an "Engish only!" sign in an
English classroom. What would be the typical way to word that? I can only come up with something
like "只要说汉语' but I'm sure that isn't even in the ballpark.

If I also wanted to put up a "No English!" sign, would that be 请勿说英语?

Do you have suggestions for any other good "elementary Chinese" classroom signs I might consider
for the classroom? I don't want to get too elaborate, but it might be nice to have a few things
around for effect.

Thanks again!










Aweni -

hello,teachinator
只要说汉语,i think "只说汉语" is better.it is more close to "Chinese only"

"请勿说英语" i think it is correct.

and i have two "elementary Chinese" :
大家有疑问吗？ is there any question?
今天我们到此为止(when you finish the class you may say this)

i just thought of these words,not much,see if other friends could post some "elementary Chinese"
for classroom here.










teachinator -

Thank you again, Aweni! You're a great help!










L-F-J -

禁止用英文
只允许中文










Gulao -

Aweni, where are you from? Because one or two of the words you suggest (I noticed 测验 and
疑问), while they work, seem unnatural and/or non-standard to me. Especially since most sources
I've learned from invariably use 考试 and 问题 respectively. Personally, I think these words
should be used. For instance, "现在我们来做一个小考试" or "有没有问题？"










skylee -

IMO, exam = 考試 , test = 測驗 .

And both 疑問 and 問題 are ok here.

Talking about being natural and standard ...












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Learn Mandarin online - Study Chinese at BSU -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
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benjaminh -

Has anybody studied Chinese at Beijing Sport University? I'm interested in studying there for a
year in the fall. I would be at the intermediate level. I'd like to study there because I'm also
into wushu and would then be all around it. I've studied before at BLCU for a month in the summer
of 2005. Any insight into the school would be appreciated. I'm also wondering about being able to
practice on your own. Are there open gyms? Thanks!



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Learn Chinese - Your Accommodation in China -

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Your Accommodation in China
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Page 1 of 6 1 23 > »






roddy -

Thought this might be a useful topic to have to compare what people are paying for what kind of
accomodation and so newcomers can get an idea of what's out there. Just give the details of your
accomodation, any actual discussion or questions are probably best placed elsewhere. Use the
format I have below, or improve upon it

Type of accomodation: Rented apartment
Description: 113m2, new building, furnished. Big (by Chinese standards) kitchen, large lounge, sun
room, two bedrooms, 1.5 bathrooms.
Rent: 4000Y a month, paid quarterly. Lease started Dec 05.
Location: About halfway between Xizhimen and Beishida, Beijing. 10 minutes from subway. Maybe 15.
Found via: Classified ad, direct from landlord.
Lease: Was originally six months, don't have a contract now, just keep paying having agreed with
the landlord that we'll both give at least a months notice of any changes.
Came with: Standard new household stuff, biggest sofa in China. Furniture isn't IKEA, but
IKEA-style I guess. Maybe a bit sparsely furnished, but that's ok with me.
Landlord / Building management: Landlord is overseas. Building management deal with any issues
well.
Notes. This is a much bigger place than I need, but I love having the space and telling myself
that one day I'll stop working on the sofa and turn the second bedroom into an office. I suspect
similar apartments are available in the area for a bit cheaper, but at the same time poking around
on the Internet and speaking to a few other tenants here it seems I'm paying less than average for
the building - for example I know there are students at Beishida living here and paying 3800Y for
a smaller one bedroom place. So that makes me feel better . . .



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onebir -

Details of the place I had in Beijing:
Type of accommodation: Rented apartment
Description: 80m2, new building, furnished. Narrow kitchen, large lounge, sun room, two bedrooms
(large one with sun room), 1 bathrooms.
Rent: 3100Y a month, paid quarterly. Lease started Jun 06.
Location: Dongzhimen nei, 5 minutes from subway.
Found via: agents on donzhimen nei da jie
Lease: Was originally six months, broke it after just over 5. Contract specified I'd lose 1
month's rent for breaking early (watch out for this), but they compromised on 1 week.

However, when I moved out, the agents did 'find' damage which had already existed when I moved in
- that I hadn't bothered to notify them about because of their unwillingness to fix anything - and
charged me for that.










chenpv -

Accommodation I have been living in my University in Wuhan:
Type of accommodation: Rented apartment
Description: 40m2, old building, unfurnished. Tiny kitchen, medium lounge, one bedroom, 1 tiny
tiny bathroom.
Rent: 600Y a month, paid quarterly. Lease started July 06.
Location: in my University.
Found via: self-made advertisement
Lease: Oral lease, if it sounds more official and trustworthy than ' Mutual Credibility'.

Seriously, I am not complaining about the relative poorer living conditions - compared with those
described in above posts - which suffice my need. But what I am not pleased with is the attitude
of landlady, who never forgets to postpone doing almost everything, even rent collection.










msittig -

Broken leases all around? Wow, Beijing is a lawless place

Type of accommodation: Rented apartment
Description: 76m2, old building, furnished. 2 small bedrooms, small living room, kitchen and
bathroom. 2 ACs, 1 TV. We pay for our own broadband, utilities; landlord pays management fee to
the building.
Rent: 2750Y a month, paid quarterly; 1 month security deposit. Lease started May 2006.
Location: Dingxi Rd, 2 min from Zhongshan Park, Shanghai.
Found via: Liked the neighborhood, walked into a couple of real estate offices, hit the jackpot on
the third one. Signed the next day.
Lease: Originally 1 year. We're breaking 3 months early because we want to be settled into a
long-term rental by June for personal reasons; so were helping the landlord find a new tenant.

We also looked at some really cool old Shanghai "new-style" alleyway housing when we were looking
for this place, but they come in two flavors: 1) cheap, but with shared kitchen/bathroom, or 2)
expensive, with private facilities. One place downtown right off of People's Square behind the
bird and turtle pet market had four showerheads connected to four water meters aimed at a single
bathtub! The better half vetoed that one










roddy -

Bump for this one, in case any of the Spring Festival arrivals would like to contribute. Or anyone
else, indeed.










venture160 -

Type of accomodation: Rented apartment

CITY: Beijing, Haidian District
Description: one room in a apartment with 5 other rooms. Had a large porch that I used as a living
space. Shared bathrooms and kitchen.
Rent: 1450rmb a month, one time 3 months fee. Internet was 50rmb/month utilities were about 40
rmb/month
Location: 5 Minute walk from west gate of Ren Da. 10 minute walk to BeiWai
Found via: Chinese friends
Lease: 3 months then renewed for another 4.
Came with: Bed, desk, dresser, A/C, TV w/dvd
Notes.













mr.stinky -

City: Kunming, Yunnan

Type of accomodation: Rented apartment (http://www.waiyn.com/gb/b6.sb3.1.htm)

Description: 65m2, 2006 building, unfurnished. 24th floor with 3 elevators.
kitchen with many cabinets, large living room, one bedroom, one bath with h2o htr.
small terrace with washer outlets.

Rent: 650Y a month, paid semi-annually. if annually may get a discount. monthly fees
(maintenance, tv, elevator, water pump) total about 100Y/month.

Location: new northern district of kunming, 25-minute (1Y) bus ride to the front gates
of yunnan uni or yunnan abnormal. 5-minute bus ride to carrefour or metro. 30 minutes
to the main train station on the new red express bus. add another 15 minutes if
changing busses to the airport. taxi fare to/from downtown clubs about 20Y.

Found via: real estate office.

Lease: six months, with a 1000Y deposit. lease will be up in june. i'm told that although
rents are rising in this area, the landlord may not increase the rent.

Came with: loads of cabinets in the kitchen!!

Landlord / Building management: very responsive. found a few problems when i moved
in, management agent called the landlord who was over within 20 minutes. had workers
on the scene that afternoon.

Notes. there are many units available in this area, with new high-rises under construction.
same size units can be found as low as 550/month, or larger (85m2) units for the same
price, some with toilets and tubs. i went for this one as there are no vacant lots within
yelling distance, there are three elevators, 7-minute walk to the bus station with about
15 lines, and the kitchen is larger than a postage stamp (room for the fridge!).










imron -

Type of accomodation: Rented room.
City/Area: Wudaokou, Beijing.
Description: 1 bedroom in a 3 bedroom apartment. Shared kitchen, bathroom and living room. The
shared areas are tiny, but my room is reasonably large.
Rent: 1550Y a month, paid every 6 months, plus a 1 month deposit. Rent includes all water,
electricity and internet. Lease started at the end of Feb 07.
Location: About halfway between Wudaokou station and Tsinghua University.
Found via: Classified ad online.
Came with: Double-bed, desk, wardrobe. Shared facilities include fridge, microwave, washing
machine, etc.
Landlord / Building management: Landlord lives close by. All dealings so far have been through one
of the other tenants.
Notes:It's not the newest, or cleanest of buildings, but the rent isn't too expensive and the
location is ideal.










skylee -

City - Hong Kong

Type of accommodation - Rented apartment

Description - 559 sq ft, unfurnished, well-maintained 20 year old building in a private housing
estate of 50 multi-storey buildings, some of which are on the waterfront (mine faces the hills). 2
bedrooms, 1 living room, 1 bathroom, 1 kitchen.

Rent - HKD6,900 rent & HKD750 mgmt fee a month, paid in cheques monthly (I gave 12 pre-dated
cheques to the landlord one year in advance). Rent exclusive of utility charges. 2-month security
deposit. Lease started in April 2003.

Location - Heng Fa Chuen, with a metro station just downstairs, very convenient yet quiet.

Found via - real estate agency.

Lease - 2-year, then 1-year. The current lease is 2-year.

Came with - 3 air-conditioners, many cupboards/wardrobes, curtains, gas stoves.

I broke the tap on the bathtub the day I moved in (thanks to strong brother trying to do something
to the shower) and the landlord arranged to replace it with no nonsense at all.










zhwj -

Type of accomodation: Rented apartment.
City/Area: Chaoyang, Beijing.
Description: Ostensibly a 54 sq. m. 2-bedroom, 5th floor (of 5) apartment, but I use the larger
bedroom as a living room/study because what's called the common room is fairly small. Furnished
but spartan.
Rent: 2000/mo on a 3mo+1mo schedule. Utilities (except for heating) are extra. 1-year lease.
Location: Xinyuanjie, (inside Sanyuanqiao) A nice, shady community.
Found via: Community service center - fee was substantially cheaper than the standard agency rates
of 1mo rent.
Came with: Standard furniture & household electronics.
Landlord / Building management: Rented through an agency, which probably adds 200/mo to the rent.
Landlord is fairly nice, too.

This is a very nice neighborhood; buildings are probably early 80s. Nice access to bus
transportation; subway is a 10 minute bike ride away.












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Chinese Character - Poll: Amount of time to learn a Chinese character - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Poll: Amount of time to learn a Chinese character
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View Poll Results: # of times, on average, you need to write out a character before you can
reproduce it
I am superhuman; I just need to look at them 6 13.33%
1-5 10 22.22%
6-10 9 20.00%
11-15 2 4.44%
16-20 5 11.11%
21-25 3 6.67%
26-30 3 6.67%
31-40 0 0%
41-50 2 4.44%
51 + 5 11.11%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll



Page 4 of 4 First < 23 4






leosmith -



Quote:

Making funny stories like that helped me a lot. Did other people do that?

From a previous string:



Quote:

I recommend using the Heisig method. This is a combination of the excellent methods mentioned in
the other posts. It was designed for Japanese kanji, but will work for hanzi. There isn't a book
out yet for hanzi, but you want to learn in a particular order anyway, so a book wouldn't be as
helpful to you. Here is a pdf of the first 100 pages of Remembering the Kanji, by James Heisig:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/...RK4/RK4-00.pdf

To sumarize, you assign a name to each primitive (a primitive is usually a radical, but not
always; its just a recurring group of strokes), as johnmck suggested. Then you invent a story that
ties all the primitive names to the keyword (the keyword is the primary meaning of the character),
something like bianfuxia's method. Next you draw the character onto a flashcard, as Yang Rui
mentioned, remembering the story as you go along. On the other side of the flashcard write the
keyword. When you get a stack of flashcards, drill them. Drill from keyword to writing only;
you'll get plenty of practice in the other direction. You can read my review on amazon, which
includes my learning method;

http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/4889960...530915-4478462

A couple notes:
1. You can include the pronunciation of the character in your story, and/or put it on the
flashcard with/instead of the keyword, but this is not advised. Most find it's better to learn
pronunciation by remembering a word that contains the character.
2. After you feel comfortable with a set of flashcards, it is best to put them into a good
electronic flashcard program like supermemo. You'll be making thousands of these things, so the
only way to avoid huge periodic reviews is to use a program that knows which ones you really need
to review and when. Every day the program will feed you only what you need to maintain 90%
retention, which greatly reduces your workload.

Good luck,
Leo





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self-taught-mba -

Good find leosmith Fixed link here










imron -



Quote:

I am flat out amazed at the number of people who say that they only need to look at the character
before considering it learnt. To those people I ask: does that mean you can recall it from memory
and produce it on the paper?

Yes, because I go over it until I can close my eyes and recall it from memory, and once you can do
that, it's trivial to write it out. I don't just glace at the character and then it's magically
learnt. Per character, I still spend approximately as much time as it would take to write it out
several times. However, because I'm actively visualising the character (i.e. drawing out the
strokes, or making it 'pop' into view with my mind), you don't get the 'autopilot' phenomenon that
occurs when writing the character out several times. Also, like any other skill or technique, the
more you practise it, the better you get, so the more time you spend improving your active recall
ability, the faster it becomes to recall individual characters.

However, similar to writing the character out, if you then don't use the words you've learnt, then
over time you do forget them. However, personally, I've found the forget-rate for characters
learnt like this to be far less than when I used to write the characters out by hand. Reading is
also great for helping to reinforce the active recall, because if you come across a word you've
previously 'learnt', but which is still a little bit unclear, you can pause for a second or two,
write the word several times in your mind to reinforce the memory, and then continue as normal.










muyongshi -

To post or not to post on a thread that has not been updated in 11 months....

A what the heck, I have two cents laying around (even though they aren't worth much).

I am able to carefully look at a character and reproduce it from memory. And even sometimes those
are able to stay in my long term memory and I never need to "practice" them. However, I also have
character that I have to write upwards of 10 times before I finally can remember it fully. But I
think on average it is 1-2 times for me. It's hard to say though as I have encountered many
different situations and I always wonder what other factors there are in my ability to reproduce
it. Sometimes ones with radicals I already know are the harder ones and the ones where I have no
clue about it's similarity to other characters I have looked at and never written it wrong (like
偷 I remember in my 2nd month of study I looked at this character and have never forgotten how to
write it). Also I think factors about how much you encounter in reading even has a factor.










calibre2001 -

Generally it gets easier once your character vocab has crossed the 1000 mark. It's probably
because you would have a grasp of the most common strokes and radicals within characters.
In the beginning, I struggled writing 報紙，雜誌 and I remember writing these like 50 times
each. Finally it sank in and I can now reproduce these words effortlessly. On the other hand, the
more complex characters like 繼續 ， 瞭解 or weirder looking ones like 矛盾 strangely
required less writing to sink in. I guess it's about how frequent and how distinct the characters
are. I relearnt writing 打噴嚏 3 times at different stages and guess what? I still cant
reproduce it by hand!










geek_frappa -

cool question.

i voted 51+. i don't consider a Chinese character "learned" until i can write it about more than
50 times in a composition without thinking too hard.

when i first started writing characters, i only cared about legibility, but now i am conscious
about penmanship for essays and report-writing (maybe too obsessive at times...).

just my 2 cents.










m.ellison -

You may be interested in a new book Matthews and Matthews, Learning chinese characters, which is
similar to the Heisig book but better. (I have started a separate thread for discussing this book).










magores -

I learned 下 after 1 try.

Worse than "super-human", but better than "just plain stupid".

I can accept that.


Seriously though...
-For most characters that I know, I know it when I see, even if I don't know how to write it off
the top of my head.
-Say a random syllable/character that I actually do know, and ask me to write it, and I'll have to
stop and think
-Ask me to write something in context that includes that character, and its usually not a huge task












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Chinese language - 快乐，高兴，开心 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
快乐，高兴，开心
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Strawberries513 -

I was wondering what the difference between these three phrases were. I usually just use
快乐，so I am not sure when one is more appropriate than the other. Thanks to anyone who can
shed some light on the uses of these.

-Christina



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skylee -

IMO 快樂 and 開心 are the same. To me the former is mostly used in writing, whereas the latter
is used both in writing and daily conversation. 高興 is more formal and I usually use it to
describe a group of people in high spirit.










juniux -

I just registered...so this is gonna to be my first post here, hope can answer your question:

快乐 is the most formal one among the three. almost never used in conversation or oral
expression.

高兴 is less formal and most frequently used in oral expression

开心 is also less formal and you can almost interchange between 开心 and 高兴. but it is not
as frequently used as 高兴.










9公主xx -

高兴 is quite informal actually.










jinjin -

this i sjust my opinion, and can be wrong. I also suppose it changes region to region.

快乐is used more in sayings such as 生日快乐，新年快乐, etc.

you would use 高兴 as in phrases such as: 认识你很高兴，but you wouldn't really say
认识你很开心。 you can also say, 我很高兴， 小孩子玩得很高兴。 but people
more often say 小孩子玩得很开心。 but then when you ask someone what happened that they
are unhappy, you would say, 干什么，为什么不高兴了？ (very colloquial), but you
wouldn't usually (but could) put 开心 in that sentence.

高兴to me just simply means happy.
开心 also means like a happy but implies a sort of action, maybe like a silly happiness. In
fact, my chinese-english electronic dictionary created by a famous Chinese company translates
开心 as "yippee" (no joke).

this is just my personal opinion growing up in a mandarin speaking chinese household, so it's hard
to put my finger on the differences, but there are some. Like when would you say "joy, happy,
enjoyment, delight, etc." in English? they all roughly mean the same thing, but there is a
difference when you say "I'm happy with my new clothes" versus "I'm delighted in my new clothes."
the latter seems like a more exquisite happiness, or even a stronger happiness...

so in short 开心and 高兴are interchangable, but sometimes not. my two cents.










WilsonFong -

Based on what I hear on Chinese TV and from my family, I'll have to agree with skylee. I don't
hear 快樂 spoken very often unless it's to say "happy birthday". 高興 tends to be more of a
group thing, meaning something like "joyous". I don't think I've ever heard anyone use that just
to describe himself. 開心 is probably the most commonly used of the three. I think it simply
means "happy".










jinjin -

I think you can say an individual is 高兴。 I've heard many people say someone is 高兴 or
不高兴。 In fact, I was at my tailor's yesterday and he made a suggestion and I made a face,
and he said 不高兴了? also, I think you say 不高兴 instead of 不开心 (or you can say
another prhase like 心情不好.)










Koneko -

This can be quite subjective but I think 快乐，高兴 and 开心 are quite common - less formal.

You can also use 飘飘然 or 兴奋 in a slang way.

K.










heifeng -

if you are going to branch out into slang, can you use 屁颠?, as in 屁颠儿屁颠儿....










Koneko -



Quote:

if you are going to branch out into slang, can you use 屁颠?, as in 屁颠儿屁颠儿....

Is this popular in Beijing at the moment? I have never heard of it before?

I think the examples I quoted earlier are accepted in writting essays?!

K












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